INTERVIEW: Dally sandradiputra - cryptozoologist
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Ray: Do you consider yourself a cryptozoologist?
Dali: Yes, I would say I'm a cryptozoologist for now. I never take study in anthropology because my background in education is education. I'll be a teacher someday, but I don't want to be a teacher.
Ray: Could you describe what a Cryptozoologist is for people who don’t know?
Dali: Yes, cryptozoology is the subject to learn unknown animals or hiding animal in the world, is like Bigfoot in United States, and the Yeti also, Yowie in Australia, and Orang Pendek in Sumatra. Not many people know. Not many. One thing, I think that not many people in the world know about how cryptozoology works in Sumatra because we have also-- When I go to the forest, finding something, it's not like Bigfoot, I got some big print as well in the forest in Sumatra. It's not only the Orang Pendek.
Ray: Yeah and that’s the bigfoot you are referring to, that’s the Orang Gadang? Maybe I am saying it wrong.
Dali: Yes, Orang Gadang Yes.
Ray: Could you talk a little bit about Orang Gadang? Because I actually don’t know much about it. I saw some of the videos you sent where you talked about it, but that was actually one of the first times I had heard of it.
Dali: When I was in the West Sumatra, I think the Orang Gadang is different places with the Orang Pendek. Orang Pendek species are special in the Sumatra Kerinci, but when I was visiting the West Sumatra, I got some new creatures. By interview local people, they told me about the creatures, they're really big, about the height, two meters to a level and so strong. They call the Orang Gadang [unintelligible] .
Ray: I wuld lik to go back to th Orang Gadang later, but let’s focus on the Orang Pendek for now.. Hav you ever see the Orang Pendek?
Dali: No.
Ray: What evidence exists that makes you think it is a real creature?
Dali: When I was visit one area near Gunung Tujuh, it's called [unintelligible 00:05:02] , when I found the prints in the ground, I heard something like a noise in my back, so I run back and then take some photos. In my home, I made a zoom in my photos, then I found the creatures on the tree. Anyway, I sent this photo to my friends in France. It's something to my pictures. Then I sent to some partners from Canada, and then he make some sketch about these creatures.
Ray: I know there’s a lot of folklore that surrounds the Orang Pendek-
Dali: Yes. Many search from the local people also difference of folklore, many version I mean. One person say this creature is force people in the past time, he make something like wars in the village also, of course, and then go to forest and convert to be a monkey, something like that, but there's no proof until now. I just start with the opening, it's just like a missing link.
Ray: Yeah I know that they found those fossils on the island Flores, of Homo Floresiensis. Do you think there could be a connection between Orang Pendek and Homo Floresiensis?
Dali: Could be because now the Orang Pendek, there is no proof in Sumatra. Nobody found the bones in Sumatra. Only people they see in person about the Orang Pendek, then found the footprints, something like that, only that. No found bones. I was in expedition with Adam Davies in 2009, we found some hairs. We collect some hairs and then sent to the Copenhagen University I think. He found some DNA, different DNA with a monkey and a human. Half a monkey, half-human is the blood and hair, something like that.
Ray: Where is the Orang Pendek most commonly sighted in Indonesia?
Dali: Well, most people look for Orang Pendek in Gunung Tujuh. Then when I was in expedition, I explore many forests in Sumatra, one in Bengkulu. Bengkulu have some good story as well about the Orang Pendek. They are based on the history from the Dutch colonial time, the Orang Pendek first sighting in Bengkulu in the Tikaba.
Ray: A lot of people think that the Orang Pendek could be a misidentified Orangutan or Gibbon, what makes the Orang Pendek different?
Dali: Yes. It is a simple description because when I did some interview with the local people, they told me about the Orang Pendek walk upright, and then gibbon is not like that. That's the only different thing because many monkey is not walk like human upright in the way. That's it,
Ray: So you know Alex Schlegel who did the camera trapping project with National Geographic, how did you come to know each other?
Dali: I think. Yes. Well, first, I was working in the internet cafe before. I like to always come to my internet cafe because I think they said they only have one internet cafe. That's me. I cannot use the internet, so I like to talk to his guy. You have to make friends with this man, so he can help us to send information to the United States and back. We have some talking with Alex about the project. After Alex come back to the United States for holiday, I make friend with his guy and then talked about Orang Pendek and then send information to United States, to Alex, and to Peter Tse in the States. Then Alex come back again to the Sumatra and stay at my home about three month.
Ray: Oh thee months? He was there for a while.
Dali: Yes, three months. From that, Alex teach me some English conversation as well because he speak Indonesian very well.
Ray: Did you go out with them to set up the cameras? Were you involved in the project?
Dali: Yes, only a few time when Alex come back to the States, set up camera for a few times with Sahar, and then learn about the Orang Pendek as well with Sahar and then come back, not too long, to work with the Orang Pendek project with Alex. I think only a few time we go to forest because I have to finish my study as well.
Ray: I think Alex mentioned that Sahar may have recently passed away.
Dali: Yes. Yes.
Ray: Alex mentioned that Sahar was very skeptical of the creature all of his life, but right near the end of his life Alex said he had actually seen the creature and he was very surprised. Do you know the story around that?
Dali: In 2009, Sahar send the creatures with my friends, Adam Davis. Actually, we did this in 2009. That is, remember, Richard Freeman, Adam Davis, Dave, and then Christopher Clark. We explored Gunung Tujuh. At that time, we split into two teams in the forest, Sahar and Dave in a different area. Me, Adam, and Richard, we go to a different area. Lucky, Sahar and Dave meet the Orang Pendek in person. 2011, we did expedition again to the forest. After that, Sahar passed away.
Ray: Did Sahar tell you exactly what he saw? How it came about, what was the creature doing, what did it look like?
Dali: He saw the Orang Pendek climb the tree. When he wanted to take some photos for Orang Pendek, then Orang Pendek go away, run very fast.
Ray: And it ran away on two legs like a human?
Dali: Yes.
Ray: Have you ever seen any prints that could be an Orang Pendek?
Dali: Yes, many of the prints could be the Orang Pendek tracks. Also, I went 2012 from my main project starting with Cliff Barackman. I sent many prints to United States until 2016, so I think hundreds of prints have been sent to Cliff Barack.
Ray: Oh, wow. That’s a lot! What happens-do any of them have any of them been identified? Or are any still unexplained?
Dali: I'm not sure about what Cliff do to my prints that have been sent because my job only look for the prints and the interview the local people and then send him those prints and just finish about that.
Ray: So you don’t- after you send it you don’t necessarily hear what the verdict is on the print?
Dali: Well, for my solo project, yes, I send my footprint to a few peoples in the United States. When I got funding in gogetfunding.com, I sent to a man from the United States, Vans Martin [unintelligible] the names.
Ray: What do the prints look like? What makes an Orang Pendek print identifiable compared to anything else you might find in the Jungle?
Dali: Well, five toes, they have five toes. The tongue is more like-- I can't explain. Maybe you can see cliffbarackman.com. You can search about the Orang Pendek prints. I sent to him.
Ray: I did see those, yeah. Are you familiar with Debbie Martyr?
Dali: Yes, I know her but only meet for one time, I think because when I was interviewed for my book, I only meet one time.
Ray: Do you know much about her work?
Dali: Not much about her but when I was this interview with her, he talked to me, "You have seen Orang Pendek in Gunung Tujuh and in Bengkulu as well?"
Ray: Did she give you any information how she saw the creature? What happened when she saw it?
Dali: Not too much. She talked to me about the creatures, you know what I mean? It's only he found the Orang Pendek in Gunung Tujuh, and then he go to Bengkulu to do some expedition, and they found the Orang Pendek as well, something like that.
Ray: When you go out and look for the Orang Pendek, what do you do? Do you go camp in the jungle, what sort of work do you do when you are looking for it?
Dali: First time, I go to the village, and then did some interview to the local people, that's important for me. Then, he take me to go to the forest, and then in the deep forest, we make camp about a few days in the forest, and then look for around to look for some prints and then look for some hairs, and then go back to the village again.
Ray: How often do you go?
Dali: I cannot count because too many location I've visited for Orang Pendek. I think for one month, I can go about three time, four time, something like that to go to forest.
Ray: How long do you stay out in the forest?
Dali: Sometime five days, three days, something like that, but If I go with the big team, we can stay in 10 days in the forest
Ray: Yeah, I actually have Richard Freeman’s book and was reading about his time in Indonesia. Did he find anything… was that just on that expedition you took where Sahar saw the Orang Pendek? Was there any other encounters he had on his trip with you?
Dali: I think Richard book is very good because he puts so many material. I think he missed something, places, they're good to go to look for cryptozoology's work, I think. If Richard Freeman hear about this conversation, I hope he go to West Sumatra to look for another creatures. Also in Bengkulu, Bengkulu have some aquatic monkey as well.
Ray: What’s the aquatic monkey? What’s that called?
Dali: Yes. Aquatic monkey is a creature stay in the river. It's like a monkey stay in the river and I guess eat some fish. That's funny, I think
Ray: What’s it called?
[unintelligible] There's only a few people who look for them. In Indonesia, I think only two peoples look for them, first from the TV channel from Indonesia, and then the second myself.
Ray: Did you see any evidence for them?
Dali: I think this is only a folklore from the local people over there. One thing interesting for me, when I did some interview in the local people, and then they claim have seen the [unintelligible 00:26:09] have some victims from the local people.
Ray: Do you see effects of deforestation of the Jungles in Indonesia affecting Orang Pendek and how we are going to find it? How do you see that affecting the search?
Dali: There's something mess from Indonesia. From the outside, the forest is very good, and then when we go to inside the forest, we see many illegal logging activities.
Ray: If someone who is listening to this is interested in learning more about you is there a good place for them to follow your work and follow your search for these creatures and if you are going to put out a new book.. Do you have a website they can go to?
Dali: Yes, I just set up my website, but this is not only for the cryptozoology's work, sometimes I put my experiences to go to expedition, and then sometime about my traveling work, something like that. You can find my website in dallynfriends-adventure.com. You can find me on my Instagram, something like that. Dally Sandradiputra, that's it.
Ray: Maybe we can talk a little bit more about Orang Gadang. This is the first I’ve heard of it. Is it more aggressive than the Orang Pendek? I thought I heard some information that it might be a more aggressive hostile creature.
Dali What I'm going to say is I think there's not many sighting about these creatures because the local people is not focused to look for the Orang Gadang, something like that. When the local people go to forest for looking some bark or something else. He just find the Orang Gadang, and then they don't want to talk to the people in the outside the forest. I just keep the secret information. I'm lucky because I did some interview, few people look for the Orang Gadang. The Orang Gadang location is West Sumatra, not in Kerinci.
Ray: Do you believe the Orang Gadang could be a real creature?
Dali: Of course, I found many prints of Orang Gadang as well in the forest in the West Sumatra. I think 2014 when I did some expedition in the West Sumatra, all of the prints I found is not the Orang Pendek prints, very, very big prints.
Ray: Kind of like the bigfoot, what we think of as the American bigfoot.
Dali: Yes, something like a Bigfoot.
Ray: But you’re saying there aren’t a lot of sightings of it at the moment
Dali: Right.
Ray: Not many people have seen it
Dali: Yes.
Ray: Do you have any plans to go out and look more for this creature?
Dali: When I collect my money and then I send my money and then go to the forest to look for the creatures. For now, just break it out because I had to finish my second book and get some funding from my second book, I can go to forest again, something like that.
Ray:Is there anything I haven’t asked you about in regards to the Orang Pendek that it would be useful for people to know about?
Dali: Yes, I know. Yes, sometime Orang Pendek come to the shelter of the farmer to take some sugar and then oil and then the Orang Pendek eats all, also digging something in his farm because many Orang Pendek sighting come to the farm when digging something like potatoes or just look for insects, something like that.
Ray: Have any farmers ever tried to prevent Orang Pendek from stealing their crops or food?
Dali: Yes. In person, the Orang Pendek grabbed his food something like that. In the border of Sumatra and Kerinci, we did some interview in 2011 where the Orang Pendek come down from the forest to his farm and then break up his shelter and then grab his sugar and put everything in his shelter and then go to outside. Then in another place, the Orang Pendek digging something in his farm, potatoes and then go up to the forest again, something like that.
Ray: Has anyone ever trapped one, have you ever heard any stories of anyone catching one or trapping one when it sneaks onto the property?
Dali: Yes. Like I said before, I have capture the pictures of Orang Pendek but not surebecause many trees are there. Another one, people just told me that I had get some sick in my brain. [chuckles]