INTERVIEW: Dr. anabela cardoso -Founder ITC JOURNAL

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

Ray Tarara: Let's just start with introducing who you are, maybe a little bit about your background and how you first learned about ITC?

Anabela Cardoso: Professionally, I am a career diplomat. Now I am retired. I learned about ITC through a series of occurrences. A friend who had lost her only son in a sailing accident, she had tried to commit suicide, three or four times. She's a very unstable character. It was her only son also and I was living a period of bereavement too. We started trying to find out what we could do to attempt any contact if that will be possible. That's when we contacted a Jesuit priest, very impressive in the paranormal, although neither of us is a Roman Catholic at all. Anyway, he was quite a remarkable person here in Spain where I was posted as Consul General of Portugal. We tried to contact him. He was very pleasant and very kind and we went to Madrid to meet this priest who was quite famous. Exactly because of his adherence to the so-called paranormal. We had a very pleasant lunch in a good restaurant in Madrid and that's the end of it I asked him, "What do you think we could do, to reach this goal?" He said, "Well, the way I see it, I think it will be through ITC." That's when we started informing ourselves about ITC. That's how it started really. Then we started buying books of Friedrich Jurgenson and Maggie Harsch-Fischbach in Luxembourg. Then we started a very simple, modest, series of experiments with a friend of ours who has some electro-technical background. He had studied in the university in Buenos Aires. We knew him and he knew about ITC. We didn't, but he did. Our friend who is still my friend after all these years, Carlos Fernandez, was a person who came and helped us with the instruments and the recording and this and that because we should think this was end of 1997, the very end, let's say November or so, November or December. The first results, I say my, but at that time, we were the three of us, although Carlos is not interested in the transcendental point of view, let's call it that way. He's only interested in the technical side of the phenomena. Anyway, we started experimenting with images. We did get a few, apparently anomalous images, very interesting ones though because they were of a deceased dog that had died one year or so before. She was an abandoned old dog, a Great Dane, and started receiving these first images that so much resembled the Daye. Called her Daye. That was it. Then other images rather good too. At a certain point, I persuaded them. I said, "Well, these are very nice, but this is not real hard evidence." We need to get information that we can tell. Information, real information to the voices. At this time we already knew about the voice phenomenon. That's when we started with EVP, let's call it that way, experiments because they were EVP experiments at the very beginning. In a matter of a few weeks we got results. Two months later, this was the 11th of March, 1998, I was here in my house, this house, a little room. It's a big house and I put aside a little room as our studio at that time. I was doing the EVP experimentation on my own and the voice started replying to me directly from the loudspeaker of the radio. It was, at the time, an old Ralph radio. Now they are all bad. They no longer work and I have very modern, strong, powerful radios but that's what happened. From then on, the voices never stopped. My friend, this friend who started working with me who has lost her son, as I said, she lived far away, 150 kilometres away. At a certain point, the only thing she wanted was to contact her son directly. That never happened, really. There was a message from him to her, but to me, she was not here that day. She, at a certain point, lost interest because it was long traveling and so on, and she wouldn't get direct communication. She was not so interested in contacting another level of existence, but she was interested in contacting her son. Two different things, isn't it? I stayed. I never stopped. As a matter of fact, when direct radio voices started, you must perhaps know that first one I have played it everywhere I go. I was almost always on my own here. Carlos came, but he lives nearer. That's what happened. I mean, at the beginning, of course.

Ray: That's amazing. I think one of the things that strikes me is so much about the recordings that you've done and the way you work is when you think of electronic voice phenomenon, I think people generally think of playing back a tape recorder and hearing something after the fact but what you record are actually voices that are coming live.

Anabela: They're voices, yes.

Ray: Yes. Could you talk a little more about that and how you achieved that process?

Anabela: That was the first voice I told you, 11th of March 1998, started replying loud into the earth. As a matter of fact, very loud indeed. Very loud, as loud as I am speaking now. That's it, that's how it started and then it never stopped. You see what we call-- Well, at least I do. This is the terminology I use, EVP voices which are really the Raudive voices. Those are the ones that cannot be heard when you record it. The direct radio voices, they come directly from the loudspeaker of a radio. Like Marcello Bacci voice. That's the voices I get. Not so much now because it has been many years and the voices are not there all the time. What for? What could be the purpose of that constant-- Speaking, they tell me now what they are doing although I still turn my radios twice a week. For instance tomorrow and on Sunday. They tell me that they are working to be able, working still working and they always work with the radios and so on, to be able to speak with everybody in this level, in this world, interested in contacting their world. That's what they tell me. I no longer speak with my first communicator, Carlos de Almeida who was very experienced and spoke with a very loud and very powerful voice and so on. Nowadays, I speak mostly with my family member, although, direct also.

Ray: Wow. That must be really incredible to be able to speak with family members. What is that experience like to be able to reach out to someone who you knew when they were alive and speak to them on the other side? What was it like the first time that you were able to achieve that?

Anabela: When was the first time. I no longer remember. Let me think. Perhaps to speak with my father or my brother or one of my family members, perhaps, this was-- I don't know. The year 2000 or something like that. Could be.

Ray: Could you just talk about what that experience was like because I think that's something that so many people would be interested in having the chance to speak to a loved on again.

Anabela: The voice started speaking and I asked, "Who is speaking?" The voice said, "It's the father." As a matter of fact, my father always says like this, "It's the father." "It's João Cardoso." That was my father's name. That was the first one and then there are several I think in my website perhaps. It is Luis, my brother. It's Luis Cardoso. For instance, I remember this one very well. "Is it you Luis?" He says, "Of course, it's me." [chuckles] These voices are published. The other day the local television, not so much local but regional here in this side or in this part of Spain came to make a documentary here in my house, interviewing me and then putting into the air some voices and this was some of the voices I gave them to publish with the documentary. Yes, go ahead, sorry.

Ray: I was just going to say, it was at the piece that you sent me, like a week or two ago. A television piece. The video.

Anabela: Oh, yes, that's the last one.

Ray: Got you. Okay, great.

Anabela: The last one that he translated it into English. Not translated, it's shortened, it's a resume in English. Is that the one?

Ray: Yes, I saw that one.

Anabela: Yes, exactly.

Ray: Maybe just because some of our viewers may not actually know what Instrumental Transcommunication is, this could be a new topic for some people. Could you maybe just give us a quick high level explanation for what ITC is and also maybe just touch on EVP as well specifically?

Anabela: At the time of Konstantin Raudive, we are speaking of the end of the '60s beginning of the '70s when Breakthrough was published and it caused all that stir in England with Breakthrough and everybody started experimenting. Not everybody, but many people in the United Kingdom many started receiving voices, these voices that you cannot hear. You sit down in a room, studio, wherever you wish and without interference. Of course, that's not necessary to say. It's logical that you shouldn't have any interferences. Anyway, you sit down and you start speaking to communicators or address whoever you want to address. Then you give it something like 10, 15 minutes. You make a question or a comment, wait one minute or two then another one and then you finish your experiment. When you play back what you recorded, voices might be there, not always, of course but many times. At least, that's how it happened with me. Many times there are voices, they're replying to your questions. Loud ones too. At least as I said, this is always personal. Mine were loud, maybe other people are not. Anyway, I suppose it depends on the people, it depends on the communicators, it depends on the environment, it depends on the place here on this planet. It depends on so many things as the communicators have said in Luxembourg. You sit down, as I said. Make one question, wait one minute or two another one, in silence, of course, without extraneous influences, sound influences, acoustic influences. At the end, you finished your experiment and when you rewind whatever you recorded, recorder, computer, or wherever, voices might be there. Those are the so called EVP voices. They started with Raudive-- With Jurgenson, of course, first. I know you say Raymond Bayless and all that. Of course, I know that but as a matter of fact, they never spread the existence of these voices like Jurgenson and Konstantin Raudive. I can't compare Bayless and Attila von Szalay with Friedrich Jurgenson action at least in Europe through the voices that he really saved which was in 19-- Maybe I'm wrong but I think in 1959 his first voice in Sweden, I think so. Anyway, these were the so called EVP. There was no idea, a direct radio voice was possible. Nobody thought about that. They didn't exist. Then at the end of Jurgenson's work, almost at the end, one of his voices, maybe Lena, who was his intermediate, Lena said, "Turn on the radio." They started turning on the radio and the first voices that I ever heard started coming through the radio. It's Jurgenson's. Then Raudive, I'm not sure, he got radio voices. I don't think so. I think they were all EVP voices. That is the ones that cannot be heard directly when you record. Only on playback. From then on, there was of course Marcello Bacci who started in '72 with EVP voices also for a few years. I do not know how many, but perhaps seven, eight, nine, EVP voices only. Then at a certain point also through the radio, he started receiving voices, direct radio voices. Then naturally it was the most famous one. Adolf Homes and then myself later, a number of years later. Bacci practically all the years until he died. Not all, it was a few years before he died. He died last year. That's what I can tell you about the difference between the two types of communications. It was Professor Ernst Senkowski who named this contact Instrumental Transcommunication. Trans, beyond of course and Instrumental through instruments. I discussed this with him, with Professor Senkowski. I told him, "I think this should be Electronic Transcommunication." He said yes but at the time, he had experimented himself and had results too that were instrumental, it covered all instruments but as a matter of fact, these voices are electronic voices, isn't it? It was Professor Senkowski who devised the term Instrumental Transcommunication. He wanted to cover all types of phenomena. That is, spontaneous computer text as in Luxembourg, as in Adolf Homes' house, images, Direct Radio Voices, telephone messages, what else? So many-- Everything that comes to electronic devices be it image, text, or voices, he wanted to find a term to cover them all. That's how he found Instrumental Transcommunication and it became known as such.

Ray: That makes sense. When you're doing your experiments, how often do you get responses from the other side?

Anabela: It's impossible to say that. I do not know when I'm going to get responses or not. There is no parameter for that. You can be three months and get no reply. You can get replies every single day you experiment. You can't say that at least in my case, of course.

Ray: Have you noticed any factors that have lead to an increase in communication or is it seem completely random to you?

Anabela: Factors. Perhaps dry weather, rising moon or raising whatever it's called. I have had voices in all phases of the moon, in all weathers. For instance, dry weather is more conducive to the voices but then I also got voices when it was raining a lot and so on. Can't say. The communicators themselves have said that said that they do not know exactly what all the factors are. If they don't know, I know even less, yes?

Ray: Yes. You mentioned making contact with some of your family members and also Carlos de Almeida.

Anabela: Yes, exactly.

Ray: Is there anyone else that you've made contact with on the other side who's relayed any information, or are those your primary points of contact?

Anabela: Carlos de Almeida, I have just had so many. Filipe, Pedro Roque, Joan Colbert, so many. Presently, it's mostly my family members, yes.

Ray: How can you be certain it's the same person? Do they identify themselves by their name or are you able to tell by the tone of the voice who it is?

Anabela: The voices are very difficult, especially the Direct Radio Voices because of course, the voices are modulated, sorry, on radio noise so how can they be the same or similar enough? They cannot be. Very occasionally, there is indeed a similarity. Other times, it's so difficult to say that it is very similar to my father's voice. There are a couple of occasions when I say, "Oh, yes, this intonation more than voice sounds like my father's voice." Or I have had voices with the accent of the region of Portugal where I was born. I have had several of those. What else? How can I say? I can't. How can I say that they are the voices of those people? I can't say. They say they are. They identify themselves. How do I know? I can't see them. This is not a television communication, is it? They say, "I am your father. I am João Cardoso. I am your brother. I am Luis Cardoso. Luis Cardoso speaking." How can I know that he is or he is not? Why won't he be?

Ray: Yes, that makes sense. Given the fact that you don't know who you're communicating with on the other side, do you think that this work poses any danger or concern when you don't know who you're speaking with or do you not feel that at all?

Anabela: I never had any malignant voices. Never did. I communicate with or at least through-- with and through a station in the next world. The famous Zeitstrom in Luxembourg that was translated as Timestream, Rio do Tempo in Portuguese, those are my communicators. They identify themselves as the Portuguese group at Rio do Tempo station. My father has said so many times, "I'm speaking from the station, Rio do Tempo." Like they did in Luxembourg. I do not remember which station spoke with Jurgenson but there was a station, investigation central station, something like that. Yes, I think it was. It is the communicators themselves have said that through a station, there can be no harm coming, because this station, let's call them what they really are, I think. Transmitting centers from the next level of existence to this one. They are highly controlled. While the EVP contact, the famous ones that you cannot hear, I think they depend more on individual endeavor but they're in the next existence. They don't come through a station in general because you cannot make laws for this contact, for this communication. I have had EVP voices, beautiful ones too, from the station also. What has been said by the communicators is that the EVP voices are not so controlled. This probably I don't know because I'm not there, I'm here. Probably this means that they are less controlled. While they have said many times, for instance in Luxembourg, those have received the most fantastic ITC contacts ever, they have said that there is no dangers because the stations are those transmitting centers highly controlled.

Ray: Could you talk about your setup at home? If someone was interested to attempting their own experiments in this field, what should they be looking for when they do their own home setup?

Anabela: A silent place, of course. There are no noises that then they think that they are receiving voices when they are not. A silent place. Some acoustic background with no voices, just the static noise and what else? A quiet corner in their house, a good sensitive recorder and that's about it. A relaxed state of mind, if you will. That's all I can think of which is perhaps the most important situation, psychological situation to get the voices and not to be anxious and disturbed, nervous which I think is also important. Just be neutral. Not anxious to get contact like my friend was the one who started experimenting with me. Well, that's what I can say, but that's my advice. It's always a personal advice. Never a generic one because, I can't give general or generic advices because I do not know enough. I don't know more than what I'm saying. That's my personal point of view. If it works, I hope it does. I think it does, fine. In most cases, yes. Some might have people-- not some other, sorry. Some people, perhaps will never get contact. You asked me why? I don't know. One, professor David Fontana asked me to ask Rio do Tempo why some people receive contact and others do not. I did ask them and they replied, "It depends on us." Now you interpret it as you wish. That's all they said. David asked me, ask them on what does it depend to get or not get contacts? The reply was very simple. It depends on us. They said. I can't say more. I really don't like to speculate. I don't like to guess. I only like to say what I have lived and experienced and which I can prove.

Ray: Absolutely. I know you had a good working relationship with David Fontana. Could you maybe talk about some of the work you two did together and how your collaboration got started?

Anabela: Well, that was years ago. David died as you probably know, don't you?

Ray: Yes.

Anabela: You do know?

Ray: I do know, yes.

Anabela: Anyway, well, David and I got in touch with exactly because of these extraordinary souls so many and so powerful voicesI was receiving direct ones, so extremely uncommon. At the time, David was President of the SPR so I wrote to the SPR and I wrote him an email. Of course he was President. I wrote him. Who else? I couldn't think of anybody else, serious with good reputation and so on to contact except Professor Senkowski, with whom I was already in contact from the beginning. A very highly knowledgeable professor, in ITC more than anybody else I've known, Senkowski. Anyway, to support me and give me some advice on what I should do about this, I wrote to the President of the SPR and that happened to be David. He replied me very interested and in witnessing these voices and so on and so on. That's how I started my collaboration with David for many years, until he died, as a matter of fact. One day David was here at his house in Spain and in my little studio here, the communicators who are speaking in Portuguese as they speak usually. David came into the room and told the communicators over you to table.Something like this, "Can you speak to me in English?" A voice replied, "We speak Portuguese." Anyway, he continued and said, "Hello, could you repeat? How are you?" They did repeat, how are you. That's for instance, a famous protocol that David did here at my house without having told me anything. He never told me he was going to do this. I didn't know he was going to ask them to repeat a sentence after him. He never told me. He just came into the room, closed the door and started speaking. I was there, as I always am sitting on the floor. It's small room, I carpet it and that's what happened. They did repeat and then he asked them to repeat something else. Hello, David? I think it was and they repeated, hello, David. That's it.

Ray: Yes, I've heard that recording. I think it was on the TV piece or something which is--

Anabela: I can't remember but perhaps it was.

Ray: It was very, very interesting. It also makes me think about the languages that these contactors are using to speak with the person who's trying to make contact. You say that they mostly speak in Portuguese, but do you think that's because you, as the communicator who's reaching out, speaks Portuguese, or how does the language side of that work? Have you heard English voices, other languages?

Anabela: I have heard English voices, but I told you this lady, Joan Colbert, she was English, apparently. I don't know the person. I asked her to identify herself and she says, "I am Joan Colbert passed." That's all she said. Joan Colbert, obviously, is an English name or American or one of the two . Anyway, they speak in Portuguese because of two things, I suppose. I am Portuguese, although I speak other languages, but I am Portuguese and they are the Portuguese group at the station, so they speak in Portuguese obviously.

Ray: Makes sense.

Anabela: [laughs] Yes, exactly. That's exactly the reason I think when David started speaking to them and said, Rio do Tempo because you speaking English. They said, "We speak Portuguese." Then he continued as I just described it to you. Then they did repeat the sentence he asked them to repeat, in English, of course. Very clear, very, very loud. They continued. This is a long recording, by the way. Not just two words. Well, two words, you have heard but it's a long recording of an hour or so.

Ray: Do you think that we would be able to play some of your recordings in the podcast itself? Do you have any really good examples, we might be able to show, after this interview?

Anabela: No.

Ray: No, you can send them to me later, but if you have anything that you think would be a great example of some of the recordings you've done, we would love to be able to play them.

Anabela: I'll explain to you. I do not know if I told you this or not, but my big computer crashed, and because we are in strict, totally strict, I have not left the house since May the 14th or 13th. That's the day, well, the day before my computer crashed and all the shops are closed. There are no open shops. Well, you do not know here in Spain and I guarantee you. Anyway, I couldn't have it repaired. I am working with a very small portable that by chance I had bought short time ago just to take to the coffee shop or so, which are now closed, of course, also. I had it here, so I said, "Well, now I can't work." Because my big computer does not work, it doesn't start Windows and I can't have it repaired until they open this thing, which will be in June. My digitized voices are in the computer. Of course, I have the tape, but what is the tape good for me because I still record on tapes. That's how I started and I still have the same equipment. How can I send a tape, a magnetic tape? Regional voices are here. I have them all here in this room where I am now but that's no good because a portable you can't connect the Hi-Fi equipment I have to a portable computer like this one and send them to you. All those voices because I have digitized practically all of my recordings and there are many hundreds of them in the hard disk of my desktop. I can, but it will be later not now.

Ray: That's okay. We're still a few months away from finishing everything. We can certainly wait until June or July when things reopen.

Anabela: Yes, that's fine. If I find in this computer or in a-- How do you call it? In a pen drive or something like that, any good voice, which kind of voice is long, short, which kind, I will send it to you.

Ray: Great. I think we're looking just really for any examples that you think are great examples. I know you probably don't get-- A lot of our listeners will be English speaking, but I know you probably don't have a lot of English voices but I think that's totally fine. I would love to play because I thought the piece that I heard from David asking to repeat--

Anabela: That one I have here in the pen drive because I've played that in several conferences. Yes, that I have.

Ray: That one would be great. I think that one's great. I would also just love to hear maybe some longer communications, even if they're in Portuguese, that's totally fine just so people can really hear what the contact sounds like.

Anabela: Okay, fine. No problem. I will do that.

Ray: That's great.

Anabela: I do not know when because now I have here a number of problems and the new woman who came to work here, but she can't come because it's forbidden because nobody can move from one place to the other. Anyway, very complicated the period here, but in a couple of weeks or so I think everything will be much easier and I will search for these voices and will send you. I do have your email, of course. It has to be through an email, not this WhatsApp.

Ray: You can text me on WhatsApp. That's fine, but email is probably the best way [crosstalk] .

Anabela: No, for voice you can't send them through a telephone. This harms the voices a lot. It destroys even our own voices, cuts a lot of frequencies. We should do that through a mobile phone. No.

Ray: I know we're running way past what I had asked you for, but do you have time for maybe for one or two more questions or do you need to hop off?

Anabela: Well, one or two questions because then I have this woman arrived yesterday evening almost to work she's waiting for me. Many things downstairs to remade but anyway, just one or two, yes. No problem. Yes, please.

Ray: Thank you so much. All right. In your mind, what does the concept of spiritual growth mean to you and how does that factor into the work that you're doing with ITC?

Anabela: That's a good question. [chuckles] An expression I dislike, spiritual growth because nobody really knows what this means and I don't either. How I envisage the concept and what the communicators have said in this case, it was the deceased Konstantin Raudive to a lady in France. The first and only telephone confirmed, a real one, telephone call from the next level to a lady called Aileen and he said, "You should be aware--" This is to reply to your question. "You should be aware that goodness is not the purpose or is not the main--" I have published this paper also somewhere in the ITC journal. "Is not the purpose or the only purpose or the main purpose--" I think he says, "Of life on earth. The main purpose of life on the earth is the expansion of consciousness." Does expansion of consciousness correspond to spiritual growth? Since spiritual growth is an expression I never used exactly because it's such pretty , I think expansion of consciousness is the objective of the communications. Expansion in this case, human because I think the other animals don't really need it because their consciousness follows the natural law therefore, they don't really expand it. Anyway, that's what he said. The expansion of human consciousness, is this spiritual growth to you? I don't know what spiritual growth is for you, for instance, Ray. If you understand what I mean. I don't know. What is spiritual growth to you, for instance?

Ray: It's a great question.

Anabela: I know those are some good questions. [laughter]

Ray: It's complicated.

Anabela: Very complex. An expression I dislike is spiritual growth. What is spiritual growth? Because everybody, for each one, it carries a different meaning. While expansion of consciousness is much more-- How do I say? Open, expansion of consciousness means that your consciousness, your awareness can open to so many not non-paradigmatic of the prevalent paradigm concept, isn't it? It can open to so many different ways of being. That's what I think they exactly said these words that I told you. The main purpose is the expansion of human consciousness.

Ray: For me, I've never had a direct experience with what I would call the other side as you have. For me, I've never had that confirmation that life doesn't end at death. I feel like if I have that direct experience, it would so alter my worldview and my sense of spirituality.

Anabela: Yes, I agree.

Ray: It's such an interesting idea to me because within a moment, and I would love to have that experience. I just haven't had it personally yet, but within a moment, your entire concept of yourself and everyone around you changes.

Anabela: What life is. You're young. It changes everything, of course. It changes the paradigm, isn't it? Paradigm isn't it as you said. Paradigm, isn't it? Paradigmatic.

Ray: Yes, exactly.

Anabela: It changes the vision of the world, which is commonly accepted, isn't it? I think so. It totally changes it.

Ray: That's why I'm so interested in this work, I just feel if we are making a contact with the other side, this is some of the most important stuff that we should be looking into. It's just so fascinating.

Anabela: Yes. Of course, it is. Very much so. But, very demanding also. [chuckles] Anyways, Ray, you think it's all right now?

Ray: I think we're great, yes. Thank you so much for understanding my time zone issues.

Anabela: That's okay.

Ray: Thank you for staying on late. I really appreciate it.

Anabela: Most welcome. Anyway, if I find two or three, no more, isn't it voices easy to understand and that David one, I will send it to you. Is it okay?

Ray: That's perfect. I would really, really appreciate that. Thank you.

Anabela: Most welcome. We will be in touch then and I wish you great success. Carry on with your experiment because that's the way you will reach some results. Calmly and not under stress. Stress is not a good advisor. I'm not a very calm person myself, but interestingly, I was never stressed when I started this experiment. I was just, "Oh, if they happen, they happen. If they don't happen, they don't happen." Never occurred to me that I would get Direct Radio Voices. Never ever. I knew, of course, everybody does, of Marcello Bacci, I knew because I started studying the subject at the beginning, spoke with Ernst Senkowski, and so on. I knew they existed, but that it would happen to me? No. I never expected it and I was so extremely surprised. Anyway, Ray, so if you experiment, continue experimenting, and I wish you success, yes?

Ray: Thank you very much. I hope you have a good night.

Anabela: Thank you. You have a good afternoon, isn't it? Afternoon.

Ray: That's right. Thank you so much.

Anabela: Okay. Ray, you are welcome. All the very best.

Ray: Okay. Bye.

Anabela: Bye-bye.